My Thoughts on Healthcare in USA

Gadget from has written 831 comments

I am a rich person.
Andy Graham
a.k.a. HoboTraveler.com

I will gladly pay for poor people with my tax money.

Andy, I live in Europe. For many Europeans it's very hard to understand why a developed country like US has never found a way (any way) to offer decent medical care of most of its people. For many Europeans it's just hard to understand that after say 150 years of modern society, plenty of decent Americans, hardworking, with a regular education, normal jobs, maybe less payed than others, but with rather normal lives, have hard times paying for their medical care. The European mindset cannot make sense of this.

There are two dogmas here:
- The "European" one: how can you let a citizen die, lose a limb, be treated superficially, expel from hospital, when you can actually help him get well? Medical care should be available for everyone, like education for instance or like the institutional support for the citizen's choices (to work/to do business etc). It's something typically granted by the state, and put into practice by a variety of institutions, either state based, private owned - that target the goal that everyone should get access to medical care (and other goals such as making profit). Medical care may be expensive in special situations, but overall, it is affordable. Conclusion = America is immoral for it keeps an artificially high cost of medical care in the name of profit.

- The "US" one: everyone should be able to get what he has worked for. The more you work, the more you get (with application in medical care). Medical care is expensive, but if you're hardworking enough (=rich), you will benefit of it. Conclusion = Europe is communistic for it forces the rich to give to the poor.

I think it's a very reductionist view to say that the rich pay for the poor. It implies those who are rich make a favor to the poor (your blog post hints this too) and maybe if they don't want to do it anymore, they won't do it. Maybe if you get upset, you'll say "nah... I will not gladly pay for poor people to get well with my tax money".

I think it's immoral to imply medical care granted by the state to all decent hardworking American citizens is a favor with a hand deep into the taxpayers money, and at the same time accept the tax money to go into warfare, into saving all sorts of financial bankrupcies etc. I don't mean you are immoral, but the public view of many US citizens that label Obama's project as communistic and anti-American.

In the end, a question - do you think Obama's project will make a difference for the people? If not, what should be made to make it work?

Gadget from has written 831 comments

Yes, Obamas project will allow more people to live, life will be less of a challenge, more will survive. However, at a cost, the USA pride is embodied in our abilty to be unique, a roughed individualism. I want people to thrive and have pride, I have never figured out how "gimmes" can be given without removing pride.

Challenge is why the tropical countries are poor and the cold ones are rich.

You want to compare Europe to the USA, I am comparing the developed world to the under-developed world. We are just a bunch of lucky sperms, Europe and the USA are not enough different to discuss, truly too small of thought.

However, the difference between the USA and a country like Guatemala or Thailand is a world apart, and worth a the bother, but that is not Obamas goal, he is just trying to remain leader of one country. I am thinking about the planet.

Obama is being President of the USA, he is not Kennedy, who was being President of the planet, he cannot see beyond the Democrats and also become half a Republican, or accept that he is really a half-white, and half-black man.

Example:
Kennedy erected a bridge over the Niger River in Niger West Africa in the City of Niamey, Niger and nobody know this...

SOLUTION
One-Term in Office for all politicians.
If he wanted to change the USA and world, he would be pushing for a six year set term for all politicians, therefore they could do what is good for the country and not worry about being re-elected.

Motorcycle Bob from has written 82 comments

We shall see. As you say, lack of clarity. As many weaknesses as the previous system had, the new system *could* be much worse. Governments are very good at taking a bad thing and making it worse.

I really wanted reform. Not sure if we can call what we got reform. Maybe. We shall see.

But wait, there's more. It is likely that the tax exemption for foreign earned income will go away. And everyone will have to have insurance, so you will likely have to pay income tax AND pay for insurance. And, as you say, you will be considered rich and will pay high taxes. Or not. We really don't know.

It is not right to pick just one or two things and blame all our ills on them. Some of the many many *causes* for the problems we had are: Too much Govt regulation. Too little Govt regulation. Govt salary controls around WWII causing benefits such as health care to be one of the only ways to attract the best and the brightest. People demanding too much/too little. Doctors, lawyers, hospitals, illegal aliens, rich people, poor people, insurance industry, big business, unions, politicians etc. Pick your poison. Everyone has their own favorite scape goat, and an argument can be found for and against each of them.

Being a person who has zero trust in the Government (ANY government), even if congress presented a bill to us that was my dream bill, I would be against it because I know the Govt can change things on a whim, once something is enacted.

I am hoping that this whole thing turns out to be the best thing that ever happened to the US. I am not holding my breath.

So health care in underdeveloped world--"cheap places"--is the correct price. Yet you think that U.S. should pay for the overpriced health care to save their pride. Buying overpriced things builds pride...like buying brand names! It's the American thing to do, which is soooo important to you. And the planet, somehow.

99 of your health issues are affordable in underdeveloped countries (as opposed to the U.S.). You only need help for major issues. So you mean Americans only truly need help with major issues, but they prefer to have help/ handouts for everything.

You want to have it both ways, saying care is affordable and overpriced, but in truth, that's only your case, You said it yourself, even minor issues are overpriced in U.S. That's why you never bought insurance..you didn't think it was worth it. You don't like paying for overpriced things even if you can afford. You find pride elsewhere because you have that choice. But for many, it's overpriced AND unaffordable. No choice. No chance for this b.s. pride you champion here and abhor elsewhere.

Before this bill was passed, doctors wouldn't turn people without insurance away, but those people would end up in high debt...which in the U.S. is deadly. So Americans are dying just like the Guatemalans.

I'll take your word when you say you're thinking about the planet, and I'll take Obama's when he says so too. But that's all either of you are doing just thinking. You don't want anything to change. You don't want to heal the world--it doens't need healing. And you don't give a damn if all is fair and balanced and Obama supports all his sides--white, black, democrat, republican. Pride is blind, and it is unAmerican to care for the underdeveloped planet or take every side because that is soicialist and may jeopardize U.S. And then who would admire you, king isolationist unifier?

john from has written 82 comments

Congrats on winning the medical lottery. I think I just got the short end of the stick. Even with insurance health care is expensive here in California. I just went to Tijuana, Mexico this weekend to get some dental work done. Mind you I have one of the best dental insurance plans in the US. Still I paid 4 times less than what I would of paid in California (8 times for someone without insurance). Plus, I did my procedure with no waiting, and was treated first class. Plus I had a great weekend. When I go to the dentist here in the US I never get any tacos, nor do they ever send marachiis to sing to me after my visits.

Gadget from has written 831 comments

MissNeb you search for confusion, I hope you are happy.

I may be wrong here, but as best as I can understand (which is not that much given all the bits of information floating around) it is not really government provided "universal healthcare". I don't think you will automatically be covered just by passage of this plan. As you say, it is certainly a mess and there is not much clarity. But what I believe the big change is, is that now everyone will be able to affordably purchase their own coverage. And at some point in the future, carrying coverage will be required, which is the "universal" hook. Kind of silly, yes, but I think the idea is that health care will still be privatized, but will become affordable to all. So if you have private coverage already (thru work or your own purchase) not much change. If you have been denied for pre-existing conditions, the healthcare system cannot turn you away any longer, and I also understand that now you cannot be dropped if you become sick which has been known to happen. And lastly, to cover that little bit about being "required" to carry coverage, there will be subsidies to help those who cannot pay on their own. This I think is the part that most people are uncomfortable with. I will not argue for or against it, but I believe these are the basics of what was just passed. So it's sort of a combination of private healthcare, government subsidies, and a right for anyone to get care, whether or not they are a burden (ie cost too much) to the health system. Is it good or bad? Depends which side of the fence you are on.

Gadget from has written 831 comments

Hospitals and Insurance companies are still able to do as they wish, so far it feels as if I will be forced to purchase insurance or get fined.

Motorcycle Bob from has written 82 comments

It is possible that the fine will be less expensive than the insurance for someone in your position. Then, if you need it for cancer or something, just get it then.

You mention that the price of health care in the third world is the *correct* price. I would love to see some real numbers, as in, how much does a certain operation (heart surgery, cancer treatment, root canal, appendectomy) cost relative to, say, a months rent, in the US versus third world. How about comparing how much a doctor gets paid per hour in the US relative to how much a mechanic gets paid, and compare to other countries. [I know people that will pay $80 an hour to get their Harley fixed by a High School Drop out that will then complain about paying a couple hundred bucks for a doctors visit.] I would also be interested in how much the doctors pay out of their pocket for their schooling between the different countries.

I suspect the numbers will be all over the place, as what is considered *normal* living is drastically different in different countries. Just think about how many cars there are per capita in the US versus most other countries, much less a third world country.

By the way, I am not defending things here, just saying how hard it is to really compare two drastically different places. Even Europe and the USA are drastically different. Hell, this could be a major study, which would require a grant of millions, if not billions, of dollars. Andy, if you get this grant, I think you owe me a beer (or soda, that would work too).

Bob L

Gadget from has written 831 comments

My collection of Medical Tourism Links http://www.hobotraveler.com/medical-tourism.php

Below each post are related topics.

has written 205 comments

FREE INSURANCE IN THAILAND !!!!

By Thanyarat Doksone
Associated Press writer

updated 11:42 a.m. ET, Thurs., March. 4, 2010
BANGKOK - Thailand is continuing to offer insurance coverage worth $10,000 to anyone harmed in riots and demonstrations as it seeks to attract tourists scared off by political turmoil, officials say.

Other carrots range from a waiver on all visa fees to discounts on airline landing fees.

"The measures are to support the tourism industry. The situation has been recovering but the businesses still need help," said Thai government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn earlier this week.

Now That's a deal !

Asiabill from has written 253 comments

Same here, haven't had health insurance since leaving my parents' house at 18 years old and we raised our daughter without insurance and without a family doctor. As a family of three we saved between U$500 to U$700 / month, U$6000 to U$10,000 / year times 20 years which we invested in real estate which appreciated greatly over the years. We always keep around U$10,000 cash for potential medical emergencies but have never had to use it yet. I use to say while living in the States that if I broke my arm or leg the first thing I'd do is buy a plane ticket and head for the airport rather than paying U$10,000 for treatment in the States.

The new health care bill seems too confusing for me to understand the state of Hawaii has health care and senior citizens can attend University of Hawaii tution free so we think in our mid 60s we may spend more time in Hawaii.

I couldn't help wondering why during all the debate there was no mention of the health care systems in Europe and other countries which we might adopt? Guess Americans maintain that doing most things the American way are the BEST in the WORLD, use to wonder the same thing about the American prison system and other policy decisions.